New blood at TBA South Africa

I have to agree with Louisg with almost everything.

Controlling a sale from what sellers may or may not do is pie in the sky. Every seller is coming from a different point so dictating is silly.

Louisg hit the nail on the head, the most important thing about buying at an auction, is knowing YOUR value of the product. I've been a buyer and a seller, and as a buyer my main method is to come in at the end if the bidding is still below what I am prepared to pay. Everything else, eg who I am bidding against, even if it is the seller or owner or part owner is irrelevant to me. As long as ownership passes even back to the seller, but not a phantom, cannot be my concern.

As a seller, my personal preference has always been to set a reserve at a price that is my minimum acceptable amount. In my case that amount was a mix of cost, current prevailing market value versus the pressure for income. I preferred a reserve rather than bidding to that price because if it was knocked down to me or a mate bidding for me the no one would know it was still for sale.

It is a complete fiction that the market will always determine the price. Unless it's a force sale like a repossession, no one is obliged to sell anything at a price they find unacceptable just because the audience who happens to be there doesn't want it or cant afford it.

The one main difference between horse auctions and every other kind though, is you have to pay a deposit immediately and the balance very smartly to not forfeit the deposit, and that's for ANY amount. If you forfeit, I wish you luck every buying there again.

But the reason for the credit is to get better prices, and as breeders it's annoying when we cry about payment when the design was to sacrifice time for more money. There has been a constant debate all these years about non payment, but the truth is the more hard assed you are about payment, the more "real" prices become especially at "lesser" sales. But pretty soon only rich people will be left and they tend to pay well, but they tend to shop at the top. It's a spectacular game indeed.

@ Hibs =
Only a pleasure to assist anyone. I have often been called for a 2nd opinion by an Owner, which I regard as a compliment and I attach no strings or sour grapes because the horse is not for me. Please all, just ask. I will gladly assist and explain my views, no problem.

@ Don =
Believe me when I tell you that I have made many silly mistakes along the way. And never forget that there are no guarantees, not ever. Just the ability to eliminate risk.....and to identify certain things.

There are no commissions or charges from Trainers to Owners for selecting horses or attending Sales. Being there and inspecting or evaluating horses is part of the job. My team and myself have attended the 2 Cape Sales and also the Klawervlei farm Sale of last year. No charges to the Owners for this. As far as I know, all other Trainers do the same.

goosen but you a rare bird! i know of a trainer thatmanaged to buy a horse for R50k sell it onwards for R72k train it from January till August and when the owner investigated/ask more questions it had died in april.....

as i said you rare

?Tom, based on last year's NYS figures - how many attend day 1? no need to differentiate between actual buyers and hangers-on or trainers, agents and others already in the game. As an event - how many visitors does the NYS complex draw on this sale?

@ Tom -

Now, if you want to get things right, here is a curved ball especially for you and specifically for TBA to sort out. Your feedback in this regard will be appreciated.......and evaluated.

The Subject - READY TO RUN SALES - INNOCULATIONS
1. Horses at this Sale are not innoculated against AHS, for the current year. The buyer has no way of knowing this, until after he has signed for the horse and collected the Passport of the horse.
2. The buyer now finds himself with a horse that will immediately be out of work for 5 or 6 weeks, because he has bought a horse early in November and must have AHS 1 and AHS 2 done before end December.
3. We all know that Ready to Run does not mean Ready to RACE and that "The Cup" is only run a year later. But, the R2R Sale is right bang in the middle of the early Juvenile races. Many horses are bought from this Sale to run asap. Now, the buyer must wait 6 weeks and then his Trainer can only start again, firstly, by getting the horse back to where it was at Sale time and then only with the build up to a race and the rebuilding of bone density. This is a set back for the early types.

Further, I have written to Mick Goss and Caroline Simpson about this. No reply confirming that this will be rectified.

Some info on AHS innoculations -
1. Horses must be innoculated annually.
2. Innoculation is in two parts, AHS 1 and AHS 2.
3. The two injections must be 3 weeks or more apart.
4. If innoculated during "the period" 1st July to 31 December of any year then the next year's innoculation may be at anytime within "the period". eg if on 1st and 22nd July this year, then anytime during "the period" next year , eg you could give them both in December or AHS 1 in July and AHS 2 in December, as per your programme/planning for that particular horse, as long as the horse was innoculated during "the period" during the previous year.
5.But, when innoculated OUTSIDE of "the period", say in May of a year, the Annual repeat innoculation must be on or before May of the next year.
6. In order to bring the horse as mentioned in 5 above onto "the period", the horse will have to be innoculated TWICE during that year. May innoculations and then AGAIN during "the period" - July to December !!!

So, as for the R2R Sale, the horses are not overdue, at time of Sale, but are due to begin the tedious process right after the Sale.

Tom, let me explain another scenario, as per 6 above -

Imagine, then, my being EXTREMELY pissed off when I received a beautiful 2 yo colt up from a Cape Spelling farm, which is also a Stud Farm of long standing, just last week, which is due for AHS in APRIL !!! No problem, as he wont be Racing for a while, but what happens if this colt goes where I expect him to go - to Feature races, next year. April is right bang in the middle of the Feature Season !!!! So, I now have to innoculate this colt now and AGAIN in July to bring him onto the system or into "the period", in order to skip next April !!!

Breeders had better WAKE UP and get onto the system. They should have more respect for the Racing side and the implications of their poor practices, in this regard.

AHS innoculations side effects -
1. The horse can have a Temperature and fever during second week, after either innoculations are what we look out for.
2. Most horsemen WILL NOT stress a horse during the entire innoculation period. ( 6 weeks).
3. Some take a chance (in my books) or believe that you only back off during 2nd week after each of the 2 innoculations.
4. By stressing a horse during this time, their is a strong chance of heart strain.

At R2R Sale, the Breeders have had SINCE JULY to innoculate. WHY has it not been done ? Is this not a violation of the consumer act, being the READY TO RUN Sale ? Is this good practice by Vendors ? What message are they sending out to us, by "dumping" a horse on us, which must be innoculated within days of arrival at our yards, when they have had since July to do those innoculations ? ALL horses on the November R2R Sale should have their innoculations up to date for the year !!!

And as for the rest of your Sales, ALL horses offered for Sales, should be innoculated in "the period", thus giving buyers the necessary planning options, which is what "the period" is there for, in the first place.

I see good grounds for cancellations at this year's Sale.....

@Tom, another bone of contention for Cape buyers ,and transporters, is that the sale falls during AHS season.

For horses to go into the WC there are very strict regulations including having both AHS vaccines done in prescribed times,State Vet permits etc.
The State Vet doesn't work horse hours, but rather Government hours ,which means that you can't apply for a permit until the Monday after the sale and then wait while "Africa time" gets to work. This means that the WC horses usually can't move until late Tues or Wed at the fastest.

There is now a bloodtest which can determine if a horse is carrying the AHS virus within hours, perhaps it should be investigated whether all horses could be tested once they get to Jhb, then it would make movements out of the sale much quicker.

Geez, guys have you taken the odds that Tom does not last until RTR Sales.....FFS you are bombing him with enough issues that he can't even focus on the NYS.... :S

Tom seems to have gone very quiet??

Tom answer this one for me..just a Yes or No

1. Will you get all animals on auction x-rayed at breeders cost before the sale?

2. Will you get all horses at breeders cost scoped before the sale?

When I say before the sale I mean within 7 days before the sale

Here's something you might send out to your members Tom - "Honesty is the best policy"

If I set a value on horse A of R100 000 and I make the first bid at R80 000 and a shill bid comes in at R90 000 which I counteract with a winning bid of R100 000 should I feel good that the horse came in at my projection? I think not - It is unethical to behave in this manner and as long as the TBA condones this they show their colours.

And horse A would be NOT SOLD because the reserve was R100 000...... ? Then you go to the Breeder and pay him his reserve. Isnt it the same thing in the end ?

Unethical, to me, is when a Trainer or Agent goes to a Breeder and hears that the reserve is R100k and then does a deal with the Breeder at R200k, makes his Owner pay that and later receives his comm from the Breeder.

Sham Racing have an example or two of this, from what they have observed. Maybe no names but an example, please Mark.....

Again, I dont have any time for this nonsense. The list of Breeders from which I have bought have no nonsense like this, my side. In fact, I make every effort to keep my list of horses very closely guarded until I bid. I can guarantee you that Craig and Sham Racing do the same, as do the vast majority of Trainers and Owners.

So, I believe, firmly, that the vast majority of Trainers, Agents and Breeders are straight and fair. This is obvious, when you consider that eyebrows are sometimes raised on about 3 or 4 horses, after some 350 horses have been through the ring.

Again, know the game!

Tom..where are you???

no louis if the reserve was R100 000 and PRINTED before i'm certain it would be sold - remember the R20 000 is 25% of the real price - Would you like to pay an extra 15-25% on you daily living expenses because certain breeders(retailers) try to up prices (let's not forget that they also want inflated values on sales prices to charge higher covering fees)

I think the best way to get your horse sold is to set a PUBLISHED reserve at 85% of what you value your animal at - You will sell more than you keep and if you keep your hands in your pocket long term owners will respect you and your farm will grow