New blood at TBA South Africa

I think we should rather price up on "our tom" delivering/changing/helping SA racing. If Mr Gibson is involved then at least we can look forward to seeing all of the above at Newmarket this year.

1/10 klavervlei sponsor tom and he moves on
5/10 tom lasts less than 1 year with all his radical ideas eg consulting mere mortals
7/4 tom lasts 2 years "rocking the boat"

Barry Irwin Wrote:

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> Muhtiman, you should done this job interview Tom
> was hired!

Barry it is no secret that in a major leap of faith I in fact applied for this job, no sour grapes though, but I was not even granted an INTERVIEW, however in my proposal to the TBA was this exact approach that young Tom is trying here. I was told that it was way too radical for the conservative TBA.

Better that they got a somebody that knows nothing about the industry,rather than a nobody that knows something about the industry.... :S

Craig Eudey Wrote:

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> Is there not some high profile court case here in
> SA that has or looks like going against the
> Auctioneers for pulling bids out of the air? Seem
> to remember reading it a few weeks ago. Dont the
> big art etc auction houses use paddles?

paddles -Craig, yes they do. Christies Sothebys and Bonhams. And what a pleasure to shop there...open forum and no threat of murky undertradings and whisperings in dark corners, and neither do prospective buyers have to consult with industry service providers on the authenticity of the product being sold = the sales house verifies this, this is part of their value chain. Staff on their team are always standing ready to help, backed up by a super run-up in the press pre every big sale. And a fantastic catalogue with discussion on the value of the art and the artist's provenance. Alas, they don't have 500 lots over 3 days!! Point is, there is material available for the even the lowliest of beginner to understand and makes it possible for easing their way into a buying relationship.

Transparency, integrity, open communication channels and a good value chain will bring you more customers Tom, as word of mouth will be your biggest ROI (this will help tremendously with your international market penetration too). Your customers must trust your operations, and your non-customers must not have reason not too. This is a big ask for the SAF racing industry as there is a lot to fix, including some mindsets.

HOwever, for the immediate future and pre NYS, the media is your best friend!! If TV advert slots are too expensive, make sure you're on the news! and your upcoming sale NYS is discussed in every paper and on every format and secondly, why are you not on facebook and twitter? (or have I missed it somewhere?) Last year I watched the sale on the live stream, which was fantastic, thanks for that. Perhaps this year an interview with a couple of people can be thrown in - i.e. yourself or Mr Naude on day one of the sale and one or two trainers to discuss the sale book offering and whether they have seen anything promising?

THis puts a human face to it - and would introduce some trainers and breeders (and helpful to those who don't know that they should be contacting a trainer or breeder for more information...although I don't think the responsibility of educating newcomers should be left here).

Perhaps you could commission some episodes of 'Class of Racing' to cover your product and procedure.

Definitely can't paint all breeders and trainers the same colour......just a few of both that ruin it for all

We have been doing transport for 18 years and see all the bu@&$?:/it going on with regards to who buys as to who pays...


@Tom, we have for many years asked the TBA to be more careful in the issuing of Buyers Cards, Marge often asks us , New Turf, for a "credit ref" but is overridden by higher powers. Six months( sometimes longer) we have to refetch the horses as repossessions and the breeder looses, horses that are resold like this never get the same prices. Also the service providers up to that point loose out .

easy can we have odds in there for Tom actually succeeding!

Fit and Proper

Gr8 initiative, Tom ! Some points -

1) I dont agree with the paddle idea. I think most experienced Bidders would agree with me on this one.
2) I like Craig's idea on the reserves. We wont waste our time, the Breeder's time, our Owner's time, the groom's time etc. And we will look at relevant horses, more of those in our price bracket.
3) Barry is correct. This is a very serious facit of Racing. Bidders better know what they are doing. Just as I would be completely out of my depth at a Sotheby's antique or Art Auction, so too a Yearling Auction, for those without experience. (a little bit of knowlege is very dangerous and indeed, quite apparent in some posts...)
4)I actually dont care whether Breeders bid on their own horses or not. And let them pull bids out of the air until one short of the reserve. Who cares? The horse would not be sold anyway, if reserve is not reached. Every Bidder must have a system, an eye and an inspection routine which results in that Bidder determining the value of each horse. When your value or limit is reached, move on. Simple. Craig and Justinv will surely testify to the fact that there have been many horses which they have had to let go. Common sense........and opinions.
5)We make up a walking list based upon stable numbers. Please stop the Breeders covering the stable numbers with their advertising. This is an irritation. Anyway, the advertising means very little to those of us who have done our homework.
6)If a horse is moved to another stable, for some reason, please indicate on the correct door, where this needle can now be found in the haystack. TBA could have nice, big boards printed for this purpose, to be filled in with bold marker etc.
7)Catalogues should indicate highest MR of all horses in reference. Oversees form is poorly catalogued with no distances attached to races won.
8)Trainers are the Sales Force of the industry. Could TBA be the first body in Racing to recognise this fact ?
9)Breeders could publish walking times. We would then be able to plan when to view the yearlings walking in their groups.
10)Incentives for good payers etc is a must.

LG,

At the risk of demonstrating my 'little bit of knowledge' - in point 4 you state 'let them pull bids out of the air until one short of the reserve' - wat about cases where no reserve has been declared ? The interested buyer is now taken on by a 'phantom bidder' and ends up paying more - is this fair - imo paddles would assist in these cases

No, Frodo, they would often come up against someone who has a limit and who wont go past that limit and they would end up with their "phantom " bidder as being the winning bid. (The experienced bidders dont let anyone know their intentions and limits.)Then the Auctioneers would have to explain to the Breeder that he has no money coming, in spite of him having had no reserve on the horse. The Breeder would sue them. To me it's that simple.

I dont look for spooks. Simply set your limit, that you are happy to pay for that horse and stick by it. And when you get that horse.... SMILE ! When you dont get it........ move on. Stick to your limit, which is the product of your hard work, experience and overall system.

And what will the paddles help, cure or prevent ? If the Breeder wants to use "phantom" bidders to push his price towards the reserve, all he needs is to get one or two bidders registered, paddle and all...... And I STILL wont go past my limit !

Ultimately, go back to the basics, to what Barry is saying - KNOWLEGE !!! LEARN !!! It IS a complicated game.

Louisg and Mr Irwin - how long were you involved in racing before taking the step of buying into a racehorse?

Its all fine and well once you've been around for a while and have learnt and yes at that level there are things to fix too as pointed out by Louisg above with suggestions.

But what about complete fresh entries - the TBA has a few challenges here and also in competition with the Cape Sale new co. so will have to come up with a few novel ideas on how to broaden the entry base and at the same time shorten the time between 'first exposure' to 'horse ownership'. Call it the 'racing virgins' to 'having a baby' lifespan with all the stages in between which have an incremental effect on level of involvement - physically, emotionally and most importantly , FINANCIALLY.

I think the logical path of entry is: a) go racing with friends b) try punting c) buy into syndication d) sole ownerships e) bow out

correct me if I am wrong but I can imagine very few people jump in at ownership stage as first entry? (trying to gage market behaviour)

Yep the experienced bidders have a big advantage so why not help the less experienced?

Let's get to the crux of the matter and paint the following scenario, a relative has died and in his will he has stipulated that he is leaving a trust fund on condition that you buy a horse/s at NYS and has a proviso that a budget of R1bar has been set aside for costs and keep for 3yrs. You have to spend the entire allocation and every rand you make in stakes you get 10 from the trust. While
the horse earns you earn

Now how would you go about getting started, you can use agents or trainers but must pay commisions out of allocation, who would you use to advise on your purchase/s who would you use to train and why.