What changes would you like to see in 2023 that will improve our racing?
- Over the Air
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What changes would you like to see in 2023 that will improve our racing?
2 years 5 months ago
Call this a New Years wish list of sorts. It's definitely not your wealth, health and happiness wish list that's for sure. So should you have the magical powers to make changes to our racing landscape, what would your changes be?
My wish would be that MOD come to their senses and compare what is happening under their watch to that of what is happening in the Western Cape. 4Racing have made no difference if the truth be told. In the two years that they have had control, they have not made a difference. The jobs for pals and the token window dressing on the BEE front has seen little to no difference from the dark days of Rian du Plessis and his cronies that ran racing into the ground. In the few months that Greg Bortz and Hollywood have taken over Cape Racing, the changes have been seismic. My wish is that Bortz is given the opportunity to unite SA racing and take it forward like he is doing in the Western Cape. 4 Racing are useless.
My wish would be that MOD come to their senses and compare what is happening under their watch to that of what is happening in the Western Cape. 4Racing have made no difference if the truth be told. In the two years that they have had control, they have not made a difference. The jobs for pals and the token window dressing on the BEE front has seen little to no difference from the dark days of Rian du Plessis and his cronies that ran racing into the ground. In the few months that Greg Bortz and Hollywood have taken over Cape Racing, the changes have been seismic. My wish is that Bortz is given the opportunity to unite SA racing and take it forward like he is doing in the Western Cape. 4 Racing are useless.
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- Dave Scott
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Re: What changes would you like to see in 2023 that will improve our racing?
2 years 5 months ago
Sure there has been many discussions on this topic .
The principal is that we are all aware that a healthy TOTE is required to keep the racing machine turning and generating money for the Stakes to encourage ownership in horses.
Now the challenge is how do you get punters to take a win and place bet via the tote when the fixed odds from the bookies are 90% of the time far superior.
I would go as far as to say that even the tote preachers use a bookie as they maybe loyal but not stupid.
The open bet has killed the tote and it would be interesting to find out how massive the tote pools would be if all exotics were placed via the tote ?
My early suggestion was to have a trade of where the bookies drop the exotics and the tote drops the fixed odds and its probably more complicated than it sounds.
Another lever could be to use the power of broadcasting via 240 to have better arrangement between bookies and operators.
Betway I gather is HUGE and they are putting bets via the tote.
As far as Bortz I think we can all feel the vibe being generated and I was looking at packages for the events on Kings Plate day and they are mind blowing but I also expect a full house and can't imagine this type of hype being generated at the big T
A question I would ask for the Cape is the open bet available on track?
I guess most punters use phone so probably a difficult question.
So basically I don't know the answer for the best way forward but I am also aware there is a lot of discussion and negotiations taking place to try and improve racing going forward and HOPE solutions will be found 👍
Good Punting
The principal is that we are all aware that a healthy TOTE is required to keep the racing machine turning and generating money for the Stakes to encourage ownership in horses.
Now the challenge is how do you get punters to take a win and place bet via the tote when the fixed odds from the bookies are 90% of the time far superior.
I would go as far as to say that even the tote preachers use a bookie as they maybe loyal but not stupid.
The open bet has killed the tote and it would be interesting to find out how massive the tote pools would be if all exotics were placed via the tote ?
My early suggestion was to have a trade of where the bookies drop the exotics and the tote drops the fixed odds and its probably more complicated than it sounds.
Another lever could be to use the power of broadcasting via 240 to have better arrangement between bookies and operators.
Betway I gather is HUGE and they are putting bets via the tote.
As far as Bortz I think we can all feel the vibe being generated and I was looking at packages for the events on Kings Plate day and they are mind blowing but I also expect a full house and can't imagine this type of hype being generated at the big T
A question I would ask for the Cape is the open bet available on track?
I guess most punters use phone so probably a difficult question.
So basically I don't know the answer for the best way forward but I am also aware there is a lot of discussion and negotiations taking place to try and improve racing going forward and HOPE solutions will be found 👍
Good Punting
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- LSU
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Re: What changes would you like to see in 2023 that will improve our racing?
2 years 5 months ago
The tote holds the key to racing's future wellbeing but this is not fully understood even by those who are running racing.
It is however incapable of growing significantly with what is currently at its disposal product wise and the challenges have been well highlighted by Overtheair and Dave.
The tote can be a significant growth engine if our operators are willing to accept new product ideas and work with creators to introduce these for major marketing benefits.
There is still a reluctance to listen to "outsiders" and the even older problem of not wanting to recognise the intellectual property of those whose ideas emanate from outside their inhouse intellectual pool.
This is easily the most shortsighted and terminal problem as racing will be best served by a willingness to work together for the good of racing rather than closing a necessary tap by trying to rob the water each time it flows.
This industry has a lot to learn about jv's and creating an ideas and development pool for the sport.
Hope 2023 will see some change.
It is however incapable of growing significantly with what is currently at its disposal product wise and the challenges have been well highlighted by Overtheair and Dave.
The tote can be a significant growth engine if our operators are willing to accept new product ideas and work with creators to introduce these for major marketing benefits.
There is still a reluctance to listen to "outsiders" and the even older problem of not wanting to recognise the intellectual property of those whose ideas emanate from outside their inhouse intellectual pool.
This is easily the most shortsighted and terminal problem as racing will be best served by a willingness to work together for the good of racing rather than closing a necessary tap by trying to rob the water each time it flows.
This industry has a lot to learn about jv's and creating an ideas and development pool for the sport.
Hope 2023 will see some change.
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- Krisg
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Re: What changes would you like to see in 2023 that will improve our racing?
2 years 5 months ago
Greetings Clanners.
I don't know if it's regarded as change,
But the stipes should be consistent and do thier job. Why must a trainer, owner or jockey decide to pay and lodge an objection. Why didn't they call a race review and inquire.
Late scratchings: horses go down to.the start early and only get scratched at loading, NOT because it got injured during loading. I am sure the vet and the rest at the start know a few minuets before that the horse will not run. If the punter knows this he can re sucture bets.
Also the horses didn't load and a late scratching comes thru, declare it and give the punter time to re structure. I see on few occasions they do but most of the time they don't. Not consistent.
Conflict of interest in Racing. How can a leading bookmaker, own horse and race them and that to with 10 different trainers County wide. Surely that's a conflict of interest. Let alone sponsoring Trainers and Jockeys. It sounds like our Government and issuing of contracts and tenders.
Wishing you all a Blessed 2023
I don't know if it's regarded as change,
But the stipes should be consistent and do thier job. Why must a trainer, owner or jockey decide to pay and lodge an objection. Why didn't they call a race review and inquire.
Late scratchings: horses go down to.the start early and only get scratched at loading, NOT because it got injured during loading. I am sure the vet and the rest at the start know a few minuets before that the horse will not run. If the punter knows this he can re sucture bets.
Also the horses didn't load and a late scratching comes thru, declare it and give the punter time to re structure. I see on few occasions they do but most of the time they don't. Not consistent.
Conflict of interest in Racing. How can a leading bookmaker, own horse and race them and that to with 10 different trainers County wide. Surely that's a conflict of interest. Let alone sponsoring Trainers and Jockeys. It sounds like our Government and issuing of contracts and tenders.
Wishing you all a Blessed 2023
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- Over the Air
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Re: What changes would you like to see in 2023 that will improve our racing?
2 years 5 months ago
My second wish is that BETFAIR is legalised in South Africa. An exchange would shake up the industry properly and put bookies on the back foot in regards to betting at extortionate percentages and the limiting of winners.
The tote is dead. There is a good reason why not one innovation coming from Kenilworth has any tote significance.
The tote is dead. There is a good reason why not one innovation coming from Kenilworth has any tote significance.
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- Thor
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Re: What changes would you like to see in 2023 that will improve our racing?
2 years 5 months ago
CEO of 4racing has all the answers you seek OTA.
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- Bob Brogan
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Re: What changes would you like to see in 2023 that will improve our racing?
2 years 5 months ago
OTT Betfair won't shake up the bookies, the bookies already operate the same way as the UK bookies and they have Betfair and the odds are already compiled using Betfair and Bet365 (most match or better bet365 already)
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- Bob Brogan
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Re: What changes would you like to see in 2023 that will improve our racing?
2 years 5 months ago
Higher stakes, they are all still lower than they were pre covid (50% at least)
Hong Kong style chop for under performing horses, trainers and jockeys
And much less racing (3-4 days a week)
Hong Kong style chop for under performing horses, trainers and jockeys
And much less racing (3-4 days a week)
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- Thor
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Re: What changes would you like to see in 2023 that will improve our racing?
2 years 5 months ago
Bob I like your suggestions. Therefore it will never happen. Also on Betfair, Dave has been saying this for the past what feels like 100 years, so Betfair will never get here.
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- TNaicker
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Re: What changes would you like to see in 2023 that will improve our racing?
2 years 5 months ago
I'd like to suggest a change to objection "rule"...any interference (deviation off line, etc) in the last 400-500m (leaves too little time for interfered horse to recover and beat the jockey that was at fault) and automatic demotion in place behind the horse/s interfered with...zero tolerance and see how the riding improves and stipes adjudications become consistent...any interference more than 500m from the finish (won't be many of those) can be adjudicated by the stipes based in their experience / reading of a race and the submissions made by jockeys...
To improve the tote, I suggest reducing the take out % so that more is returned to punters to return to pools...more churn will result in greater take out...a bit like reducing tax rates has the impact of spurring economic activity which increases overall tax collections...
Wishing all a prosperous New Year...
To improve the tote, I suggest reducing the take out % so that more is returned to punters to return to pools...more churn will result in greater take out...a bit like reducing tax rates has the impact of spurring economic activity which increases overall tax collections...
Wishing all a prosperous New Year...
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- LSU
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Re: What changes would you like to see in 2023 that will improve our racing?
2 years 5 months ago
If the tote is dead, local racing will be next. The tote has to survive in a new, improved format and this can be done successfully, no wishful thinking. New products, new formats with more entertainment, larger faster growing pools and better payouts in more punter friendly formats. These are all available but the will and the vision is lacking. In its current format, fully agree with you OTA, the tote is dead and racing will continue to suffer the consequences of it neglect.
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- durbs
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Re: What changes would you like to see in 2023 that will improve our racing?
2 years 5 months agoMy second wish is that BETFAIR is legalised in South Africa. An exchange would shake up the industry properly and put bookies on the back foot in regards to betting at extortionate percentages and the limiting of winners.
The tote is dead. There is a good reason why not one innovation coming from Kenilworth has any tote significance.
Betfair needs strong policing and our stipes are not up to the job yet.
Too many dodgy characters in SA racing.Just look at the crap some of these trainers give to the computaform about first timers and I have only seen the stipes open up an inquiry once with Sharon Kotzen and nothing happened in the end.
A killing will be made with unfit not ready horses being laid.
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