Tote- Win Pool Manipulation

I have been keeping a very close eye on this over the past few months.

I started seeing odds changing AFTER the winner past the post, and numerous occasions and thought this was just pure coincidence.

After some indepth monitoring of races, daily, i have absolutely no doubt that the win pool is being manipulated.

Sure, i get that the powers that be will say that "Theres a delay in our feed", i get that.

1) When the gates open and horses have jumped, the pool closes (Or so we think) *Cool*.

2) About 20-30 seconds into the race, the odds adjust (I assume this is coming from delayed feed) *Still Cool*.

3) Lets take a typical 1200-1600m race, so we talking about 60-90 seconds for them to past the post. But now lets think about this, they "past the post" on our Tellytrack streaming (be it online and/or DSTV), which, in turn, is about 10 seconds delayed from live.

4) So our effective time between the time they jump and cross the finish line, is looking at around 70-100 seconds per race.

**Now you tell me Mr Tote operator, you saying your systems are almost 1.5 minutes delayed? Considering local meetings where we don't have commingled pools etc.**

There's one of two things happening here, one which i most likely think:

1) Someone has found a way of placing last minute tote bets into the system after they've jumped (Either a local tote outlet running some sort of syndicate) or (The operators staff who manage these controls are playing when they probably shouldn't).

10% probability of this i think.

Now my better guess of whats happening:

2) I have heard rumours of this in the past by managers of totes, but did not think it was on such a big scale as i've started to notice, and here it is:

2A) A syndicate of punters point out say 5 runners they believe one will win.
2B) They back all of them for equal amounts.
2C) Once the winner has past the post, they immediately cancel the other 4 horses which did not win.
2D) What this does, is brings out the odds of those they've canceled, and pushes lower the one they kept (The horse that won), which is why the swings between "Race Closed" price gets moved so dramatically to the "Past the Post" price. As both of these events concurrently, will amply the movement on the tote.

++ Now this happened predominately in two areas ++

1) General straight win bets
2) To affect the tote for favouritism to get scratchings on a horse for exotics purposes.

I have seen enough stealing over the past few months, and cannot believe how this has gone undetected for so long.

NB: I am NOT talking about adding tickets into exotics or giving wrong payouts or entering wrong results/dividends etc, like everyone complains about on this forum over random R500 pools at 11pm at night.

I myself, am not a tote punter, so i am not talking from any bias opinion, i just believe the playing field should be free and fair for all, even if i am not part of it, which is why i want to raise this topic, open it up for discussion, and i will slowly but surely start investigating this further on my end, and prove with hard evidence that there is manipulation going on.

**Please all do yourselves a favour and check Tabonline etc the price when they jump, the refreshed update around 10seconds in, then again after they have crossed the finish line...You'll be horrified**

Happy 'Safe' Punting

Would love some more comments like this.

Clearly I’m not the only one

This is being done so openly that even the commentators on occassion after the horses have crossed the finish line say , lets wait and see what the tote favourite is gonna be cause dividends are still changing , laughable

Bushy wrote:

Would love some more comments like this.

Clearly I’m not the only one

.....yes this is the type of manipulation happens all too often ....but to say bets were placed post race is a hard sell....but cancelling of bets after the jump can be done,,,, :whistle:

Did they not introduce a system where large bets can only be cancelled a certain time before the off ?

Surely this can not be to difficult to investigate? Obtain al transactions for this race and follow it through to the point of sale!.
But do not relay on the racing operators "findings" as I believe somebody with PC, password and access to the system and authority is behind this, one off the big bra"s....
As a forensic auditor, I volunteer and will do this investigation for free, mhahala...
Lets get rid off these fuckers who is ripping us off and putting racing in disrespute.
With regards to yesterdays race, I had my one eye on the tote monitor and the other on the race...hoping to see who is tote favourite whilst racing, so that I can perhaps know whuch horse to shout home... the online monitor was updating during the race and only minutes after the race did the payouts appear... follow the audit trail... give us the culprit....



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Would it not be possible for this matter to be referred to the Winning Ways Show where Mr Goodman can invite Phumelela and a few punters in the know of this problem can dish it out to Phumelela and Gold Circle?

Not so long ago I picked up a problem where a 33/1 horse was declared the tote favourite in England[it won] and the 1/5 favourite ran off the board[fell during the race].This 33/1 horse brought in all the scratchings for the P.A .Save to say that this problem was never rectified.Due to the nature of the overall dividend in the P.A I let it go.

I believe we have prima facie evidence to support our observations.Something is not right and urgent intervention is sought.

....I'm sure that the top dogs know exactly who is responsible....they are a clique and protect their own....the problem is that someone in this this band of boets.....earns too much money actually from promoting racing and sports betting.... and the tote is a mere playground for them to play in....they are not making a killing..... but just like most are just churning their earnings....but they do it with a lot more zeros..... and to their mates..... they are the racing's big heros....racing is a whore....better the prostitute you know than the all the sk@nky b!tches you don't..... :S

.Refresh Page
Thursday 02 August 2018
Race 1 Race Closed
NO NOW - 3MIN - 6MIN - 9MIN - 12MIN - 15MIN
1 2.90 2.80 2.90 2.90 2.80 2.60
2 5.00 4.60 7.10 8.20 9.10 10.80
3 12.50 11.30 13.90 10.20 10.40 10.30
4 19.20 18.10 16.90 15.90 14.90 14.40
5 5.20 5.00 4.50 4.90 5.00 5.80
6 24.80 29.90 34.00 35.60 42.30 37.20
7 28.80 33.40 23.80 19.60 18.20 17.80
8 45.40 45.80 39.80 33.50 42.10 41.20
9 41.20 38.30 45.30 44.50 42.90 38.90
10 32.20 40.50 28.90 33.10 29.00 25.90
11 22.40 17.90 11.40 8.00 7.00 6.40
12 8.10 10.20 8.10 11.00 12.10 13.60
13 39.70 44.40 42.00 49.60 47.80 48.80
14 21.90 34.40 31.20 31.00 36.90 39.70

....check the big lay off on the 11 horse....can only be done by cancelling bets..... :whistle:

Dave Scott wrote: Did they not introduce a system where large bets can only be cancelled a certain time before the off ?

....they said that they were looking into it....but had to have a cancellation window....that window that they are looking into.... is one way glass.... :whistle:

Muhtiman wrote: .Refresh Page
Thursday 02 August 2018
Race 1 Race Closed
NO NOW - 3MIN - 6MIN - 9MIN - 12MIN - 15MIN
1 2.90 2.80 2.90 2.90 2.80 2.60
2 5.00 4.60 7.10 8.20 9.10 10.80
3 12.50 11.30 13.90 10.20 10.40 10.30
4 19.20 18.10 16.90 15.90 14.90 14.40
5 5.20 5.00 4.50 4.90 5.00 5.80
6 24.80 29.90 34.00 35.60 42.30 37.20
7 28.80 33.40 23.80 19.60 18.20 17.80
8 45.40 45.80 39.80 33.50 42.10 41.20
9 41.20 38.30 45.30 44.50 42.90 38.90
10 32.20 40.50 28.90 33.10 29.00 25.90
11 22.40 17.90 11.40 8.00 7.00 6.40
12 8.10 10.20 8.10 11.00 12.10 13.60
13 39.70 44.40 42.00 49.60 47.80 48.80
14 21.90 34.40 31.20 31.00 36.90 39.70

....check the big lay off on the 11 horse....can only be done by cancelling bets..... :whistle:

I would live to see this breakdown for Durbanville race 6 as per my query..and a second by second transaction report 5 minutes before the jump up to 5 minutes after they finish...

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Muhtiman wrote: ....check the big lay off on the 11 horse....can only be done by cancelling bets..... :whistle:

It looks normal to me, odds lengthening steadily to come in line with what the other operators are offering. The pool (red shading) does its usual 25% jump up in the last two minutes, but nothing looks too irregular.

The Saint wrote: I would live to see this breakdown for Durbanville race 6 as per my query..and a second by second transaction report 5 minutes before the jump up to 5 minutes after they finish...

The first two did do relatively big jumps in the last two minutes and swapped around and the pool also had a bigger than usual jump. There were also some delays in the updating which probably added confusion. Also not that unusual but I've always wondered why this happens.