Flamingo Park Monday

To me the formbook should be the instrument to DECIDE on where to place your bets. While I am a staunch supporter of stables right to give owners the first bite at the cherry so to speak on 1st timers I do agree that vital information should not be withheld from punters. The question should be what are the consequences if a horse reverses established form, particularly when the horse has been well supported. In this regard I look to the Jockey Club to enforce their own rules regarding inconsistent runs. It serves no purpose to have a go at trainers if the Jockey Club is not policing horse racing as they should.

I would never ask a trainer for a tip,or "what he likes"

My gripe was the comment in a punting group that " information was for insiders only"

I would have said the same if it had been MDK or Rugg that made the comment

Punters are losing faith in racing,when us old guys are gone racing will be gone.

Jarett Rugg wrote: I've never posted on ABC because I find that someone always picks a victim to try rock the boat but I see that yesterday I was that victim. I see Robert Brogan has had alot to say about me so I would like to clear things up.

Bob is right I do not give out stable info for these reasons.
1) I am the assistant trainer and it is not my place to do so therefore I'm not allowed.
2) Anyone that is an owner , I'm sure would prefer a stable that does not give out all it's info to just anyone that could steal the price as they are the ones that pay the bills and are entitled to the info.

Bob goes as far as to say that I should give blah blah info out, Well Bob I'm not a Blah Blah type of guy. I'm a straight forward and honest person and I'm sure anyone in racing would prefer me been honest by saying I can't give them the info instead of lying , bullshitting and giving them the wrong horses to back.

With regards to embracing social media and been transparent , I'm to be corrected but out of all the stables on course in Kimberley, I think I'm the one that provides the most updates as to what is going on in Kimberley , eg: Weather, Track, pictures and horses well being and working, all on Facebook. I always post updates with whatever I'm able to for the public and I'm sure there are people out there that appreciates my efforts.

With regards to my father giving comments for first call on all our horses!! I did not watch first call but I find it very strange because nor my father or I gave any comments for first call for this past race meeting. The only comment my father gave was at the races regarding Crest Of Honour in the first race. So if this is true then I'm not sure where they getting their info from for first call but it was not from us. However when my father does give out our stable info for first call that is his decision and right as the trainer and does not mean that he needs to now go post it on all public forms.

However I'm not going to resort to name calling as you have but I'm going to rather offer you some good advise. Be very careful of where you get your info from and who your sauces are and triple check the facts before following suit and resorting to name calling because I think you receiving bad info or should I say BLAH BLAH info. This will only resort in you make yourself look bad with commenting on false information.

Lastly if you do want to resort to name calling like Tarzan Rugg then please grow a pair and make the trip out to Kimberley and say it to my face then maybe you can see how much of a Tarzan I really am.

You know what they say, If they not talking about you then that is when you should worry.. So thank you.

No wonder you had no winners on monday.
True Arrogance.
Straight forward ya, rudeness also ya.

Over the Air wrote: To me the formbook should be the instrument to DECIDE on where to place your bets. While I am a staunch supporter of stables right to give owners the first bite at the cherry so to speak on 1st timers I do agree that vital information should not be withheld from punters. The question should be what are the consequences if a horse reverses established form, particularly when the horse has been well supported. In this regard I look to the Jockey Club to enforce their own rules regarding inconsistent runs. It serves no purpose to have a go at trainers if the Jockey Club is not policing horse racing as they should.

I come from a time where info was zero 70's 80's and Racing was booming - Now however it is not but I do not blame this on the lack of info or transparency but rather on human laziness - People would rather have a punt on the lotto or spin a wheel or pull a handle than spend hours pouring over a book of numbers - There is almost too much info for your average person to absorb (that's what I've often found when introducing newbies to Racing)
I do think that the sole responsibility of the relaying of the horse's well-being should fall at the feet of the NHRA. There should be a rule instituted that says - "Trainers MUST provide any information pertaining to the welfare and fitness of the horse that would not fit into the category of a normal training program - eg Tracks waterlogged Horse returns from layoff due to back injury NHRA vet has cleared it etc."
The simple fact that Stipes should be present at morning work would mean that they would know if a work was interrupted at a certain training track.
Would it be so difficult for the stipes to provide such info if they are indeed attending work in the AM?
Racing should be policed in such a way that the need for "info" is eradicated as " Stable info" just adds to the myth that every race is fixed and you will never win unless you have an ear to the inside line.

Mr hawaii yesterday was a prime example of that.The botes horse coming off a break and ran in kenilworth opened 9-10 and drifted to about 3-1 before the off.The jockey kept him at the back of the field and didn't even try in the straight.Obviously it needed the run and all they where doing was giving it the run nothing else.

durbs wrote: Mr hawaii yesterday was a prime example of that.The botes horse coming off a break and ran in kenilworth opened 9-10 and drifted to about 3-1 before the off.The jockey kept him at the back of the field and didn't even try in the straight.Obviously it needed the run and all they where doing was giving it the run nothing else.

This is the problem Durbs

There is

Punters - who don`t give a fuck of horses future career (rightly so )

Punters who are also owners - who first and foremost are punters but do understand that it`s not all written on paper and horses are not machines

Owners that punt - Love their horses but love to bet so having an edge is very important

Owners who dont punt - They love their horses and are in it for the buzz and trimmings

durbs wrote: Mr hawaii yesterday was a prime example of that.The botes horse coming off a break and ran in kenilworth opened 9-10 and drifted to about 3-1 before the off.The jockey kept him at the back of the field and didn't even try in the straight.Obviously it needed the run and all they where doing was giving it the run nothing else.

b) In view of the performance of CASEYS RAINE (+D Monatisa) (Distance 8,75 lengths, Betting 3/1), the Veterinary Surgeon was requested to examine this filly.
When questioned regarding the riding instructions given to Workrider Monatisa, Mr B D Botes told the Stipendiary Board that as the rider is inexperienced, he advised him to ensure that he had clear running in the home straight and to ask for an effort from the filly as late as possible. Mr Botes conceded that Workrider Monatisa may have left his run too late. The Board noted his explanation and after considering on the Veterinary Surgeons report, decided to take no further action

See stipes reports

THE VETERINARY SURGEON REPORTED:

a) CASEYS RAINE not striding out right front

Len I am willing to give trainers the benefit of the doubt most days hoping that I am right to assume “5% of trainers know whether their horses is right or not for a specific race" since if this is NOT the case it would simply mean that they are even more dishonest than my opinion I am making them out to be. Rob (I believe Happy birthday is in order? !) could you call up a post of a certain Bingo Park meeting where I stated to the Sham stable that a certain runner is their best chance in the race and not the one they were telling everyone on the forum to back … needless to say the “other one” I told them is the best chance in that race won and their “public vote” came nowhere… like I say I hope “95 % of trainers don’t know whether their horses is right or not …failing that the industry is even more crooked than it seems...



Englander if you for one second think that the playing fields are level you are being naive… think again .. you for one certainly know that it is NOT the case… and I wholeheartedly agree with you that trainers should comment on the wellbeing of their horses.. or whether Dave’s truck has arrived safe and in time…but knowing that you have to TRUST the person that divulges that information is the key … and given what I see daily that trust is reserved to a few..

Knowledge is power yes we all agree on that but “asking” a trainer for the wellbeing of their runners unfortunately I do not believe you will get an honest answer when the stakes are down from all... so I would rather equip myself with as much information as possible before I put my money down or failing that consider the consequences of losing it…


We do not live in a world where someone else owe’s you a favour … we live in a crooked, cut throat, everyone for themselves world… how unfortunate that is for me to accept .. eventually accepting it is inevitable analysing what goes on around me… The ratings will beat the average punter 9 out of 10 days of the week and do not get tired churning them out every day so quality remains the same and human element is taken out the equation analysing hard facts.. .analysing trends and seeing what the naked eye cannot see… from there I maintain my opinions posted above.


IF all trainers where honest it will come at the price off the odds shortening to such a degree that eventually it would not be worth taking the risk .. so if you want all trainers to be so transparent and honest in a perfect world where angels live then it will come at the price of getting 2/10 for every favourite running with a 90 % probability of it winning the human element (jockey making a mistake) equating for the 10% of favourites losing … we know that is not the case. You cannot have your cake and eat it… you want a 5/1 horse winning more regularly when a trainer gives you the info you need to consider the consequences of that 5/1 become a 2/1 in a very short space of time.



Dave geldings and card changes otherwise is part of the ratings YES...

I for one is not dishing anyone I am merely an analyst being logical in a crooked world.. If I have offended anyone that was NEVER the intention... Just like to make that clear... If you want to play this game...know the rules

Now let me get back to studying..

Regards,

Loopy

Loopy to highlight 1 instance you got it right and the stable got it wrong is comical and i know that by them openly posting has helped many clanners and you in your selections or do you Brass everything our trainer clanners say..

Barrier trials are the way to go.The stipes can see if the horse is fit enough to run in a race and if not then back to another barrier trial until fit.

durbs wrote: Barrier trials are the way to go.The stipes can see if the horse is fit enough to run in a race and if not then back to another barrier trial until fit.

would have to be a big shake up

Too many trainers and yards that can`t afford to pay their staff and feed bills already,without having the added cost of barrier trials

Bob Brogan wrote:

durbs wrote: Barrier trials are the way to go.The stipes can see if the horse is fit enough to run in a race and if not then back to another barrier trial until fit.

would have to be a big shake up

Too many trainers and yards that can`t afford to pay their staff and feed bills already,without having the added cost of barrier trials

Simple solution - STIPES on duty in the AM must pass horse fit to race - On Fridays at the Vaal I know they have horses jumping out of the pens for starting certificate - Any horse off for more than three months should have to jump out of the pens and run a certain distance before being allowed to race. Add to this any horse that has been scratched for ANY medical reason in the past two weeks especially those who are scratched"not Striding out" at race time - This could really go a long way to save horses from grave injury.

At least the punter then knows the horse has been passed fit by stipe/vet at that point