THE LOGICAL GAME.

Don please understand what I am saying .

I am not saying the punter must not punt my horses . Is their a need to be greedy and claim them before the owner gets on ?

A 10/1 shot for example , put R800 to win R8000.00 . Spread your bets at various bookies. Why put R1000 to win R10000 to shorten the horse ?

so why should the owner satisfy his greed by getting on with privileged information - do you think the punters are blind and stupid? What i'm saying Lex is that there should be equal chance and played as a mind game. Not one party profiteering from having information not available to others. Unfortunately the South African (and other countries) system allows and condones this kind of trade and participation. We can take a lesson from the Japanese model in this - and their success in building a business that is sustainable - for all stakeholders.

in fact the Hara-kiri should be practiced in the industry - if an owner, jock or official is caught being involved or having links with insider trading- OUT FOR LIFE! Such practice damages the industry's reputation and perception in the minds of the customer. This is not some utopian impossible dream. Japan could, so can we.

Yip don out for life. So we headhunt the bookmakers first. As andre said they should be dead by november 2010.

Lex
the problem is not with the punter having to spread his bets..

the claims are too small..

must be R200K claims like on the july.
that will force the bookie to stand horses and not trade horses.

most average punters put between R1000 and R2000 on a 10/1...
most have accounts and dont walk around with cash..
most if not all, only have an account with one bookmaker..sensible..

during the 80's..the norm was.....R10K bets..you could get R10K from any bookmaker standing on Turfontein..
salaries were at R7-9K per month..
clerks were earning R40 per day..



during the 90's..the norm dropped..R1000 bets..you were lucky if you could get bigger bets from bookmakers standing at Turfontein
during the 90's..the norm should have gone up to at least R50K....
salaries were at R20-50K per month
clerks were earning R?? per day..


during the 00's..the norm...maybe R10K..
they all big mouth..but when you start taking back..max R10K that I could get..
however the norm should be ...at least R100K now..
salaries are at R50-100K per month
clerks are earning R500 per day..


thats why there are so many bucket shops..90 % of the current bookies dont belong in the industry...
their cash reserves have not grown with the industry norms..
they dont have stock...
Bank OD and the perceived value of the license is not stock...
they all have many venue's...
but it's like having a pizza shop in every town..

they are all gearing themselves for the 2010 soccer..
well, my opinion..they dont have enough money..they will be stuck out..
the gambling board will have their own trouble next year...

so..if you want a price..back with a bucketshop..they will lay you R500K
REI-REI..my mate took $50,000/$2,000 in the USA..
many of the MDK horse are backed in Hong Kong bucket shops..


playing with the existing bookmakers infrastructure is like..
playing ONLINE POKER ..100/100 tables..maybe 200/400..but that is it..

Don for the last time understand what I am trying to tell you .

I don't want to claim my horse . I want to enjoy my 5/1 , 10/1 . The thrill of my horse winning is enough . My problem is when a punter claims my horse and takes that price. I feel that is not fair as he just makes money of my horses and has no day to day dealings with the horse like I do .

Most bookmakers should be in jail..
why..
the law states...

for each day leave due to an employee(clerk)..the bookmaker must have the equivalent cash in the bank...
but the account is in the red...

look at the current situation in Gauteng..
about 104 bookmakers
about R8m at Goba / 104 bookmakers = about R80K
each have R150K Guarantee at Goba/Gambling board

hence each bookmaker have R230K in cash
add R5K for license..can get a BEE license for free now
add R50K for equipment..pc's..tv's..etc...second hand..

hence the bookmakers total assets = R285,000
must be why goba only guarantees R200K per ticket..

all the gambling board is concerned about..
1. have you handed in your sheet
2. have you paid your fees

whether the bookmaker is still profitable..does not matter..

bookmakers businesses should be transparent..
like any listed company..
and they are listed at the gambling board..
their books must be available realtime online..
gambling board always says..the books are open for inspection at the board..

dont need to see the customer name or horses that were backed..
but must see reatime the exposure vs bank account

lex i do understand your point, what you don't seem to understand is where your point is flawed - which is what I am trying to point out to you, perhaps you should not own horses if it bothers you that punters make or lose money out of your expenditure, it is the principle of the matter - you as the owner should not be chasing a price...
notwithstanding the punters' expenditure week after week punting on horses (including your own) - their monies that make up stakes, track upkeep, racemeeting held etc. do punters have a claim on the value of your horse related to their input in the upkeep of racing then? so, every time your horse runs for stakes or uses the facilities that punters' money pays for, can they exchange ownership of a % in your horse?
Owning a racehorse has no guarantee of ROI, the variables are too great, and owners who think they are entitled to play the system in order to force a ROI, are mistaken - exploitation of the customer. Each stakeholder in racing has a different role to play...punters are there to enjoy the spectacle/punt ROI numbers game, owners are there...(you complete the line here Lex)

www.africanbettingclan.com/forum/phorum-...15/read.php?3,116107
see thread Louis Goosen

It is really as simple as the following:

If you are a punter you should be able to back whatever horse takes your fancy at whatever price you can get. Thats what performance and expectation is. The price is quoted on the board and can be backed by whomever/whatever/whenever.

The owner has just as much right to punt his horse WHEN the price is placed up on the board/tv screen whatever. An owner who has been told by his trainer to have a punt WILL MAKE SURE he gets on.....If he gets on at the BEST price or not is totally up to him. He can contact a bookmaker and tell him he wants to claim the horse after it has opened at whatever price.........It is up to the owner to do this.
If the owner waits for a day after the price has opened up and ALL the rest of the world got on, thats not the fault of the punter but rather information lacking between trainer and owner, nothing to do with the punters. They are doing what they always do....speculate, trade, know because of information ect.......

Who is to blame mostly????? The trainers will ALMOST never tell an owner to back a horse due to him (and his family/friends) wanting the price or simply because he does not want you to back the horse (it gets beaten) and hold a grudge. He could lose a horse (or 10) to another trainer because you as owner feel like you have just been robbed!!!

This game is never going to change.....When money is involved people will be sneaky, from the trainers to the owners and punters and everybody in between!!!!!

All we should be doing is try to get more punters into the game by advertising this sport as an alternative to casinos and lotteries. It should also be advertised as a betting opportunity where you have at least a measure of predictability in the outcome, kind of like blackjack or texas hold em.

Why don't we teach more people HOW to punt (Like andrewest and I have said MANY times) read form and fill in a betting slip.

Once they have taken one winning bet they will be HOOKEd for life, maybe even become and owner!!!!!!!!

We should not fight the battles worth fighting, but rather fight the battles we know we can win!!!!!!!!!!

It`s like having a punt with a bookie,you hand the cash over and the cash no longer belongs to you,if your lucky you may get a return on your "investment"

Well said Tommy and Andre - my vote goes to punter education, those that are customers already, and those who are not customers yet. The biggest turn-off about racing is the lack of first-timer help...so you go there with your friends on a social and feel like a complete dweet the whole day. A little help and information would go a long way in hooking people to it as it is hugely interesting once you do get going, let's face it- you have more chance of winning than the lottery - one of the 10 or 20 horses has to win the race - odds there are lets say 20/1 at worst...whereas, lottery/casino is beyond reason.

Many years ago Kenilworth produced a little leaflet for first-time racegoers, which was quirky - it explained all the facets - what is a racehorse, what does the jock do etc, how to place basic win/place bets, what are odds. Sadly they only did it as a once-off.

Then do you remember, there was that TV programme of a number of years ago which followed a group of first-timers at racing over a number of weeks and how they fared at learning the game and placing bets.

Having these ideas are great, but whose responsibility is it to institute customer learning and why is it not being done? RA/Phumelela - ??