no more slaps

AB, imo Its improbable to think that many if any races are fixed in terms of who will win, its far more lucrative to guarantee a certain horse wont win, spoiling a horses chances is far simpler to pull off and because horses are unpredictable, far easier to provide excuses as to why the horse didn't win...

AB I too have a problem with:

"what is concerning is that not all horses are triers in every event, races are used, and are allowed to be used as prepration for a future more lucrative event, and winning could have severe consequences ito of handicapping... "

Simple solution when placing your bet think like a criminal.

Adios Bookies Wrote:

---

> i think more skulduggery at draw time......
> statitically impposible for kobus to draw widest 3
> out 3 tries in KZN with the same horse..... i have
> one who has drawn in the 60's for a race arounfd
> the turn for the last 6 weeks.

Statistically impossible? Far from it. Every draw is a new event. What has gone before is completely irrelevant.

Adios Bookies Wrote:

---

> i think more skulduggery at draw time......
> statitically impposible for kobus to draw widest 3
> out 3 tries in KZN with the same horse..... i have
> one who has drawn in the 60's for a race arounfd
> the turn for the last 6 weeks.


Ab, amen to that ! There was another thread earlier in the year where the same issue of PE horses visiting got absolute shocking draws without exception.

Obviously there will be corruption and occasions where a jockey will hold up a horse. Both the temptation of reward or threats of loss are enough to convince many a person to not give his or her all in any sport, we would be naive to think any different of racing.

Imo, more than races being fixed, jockey's inform other individuals of their mounts inability to win a certain race more than races are 'fixed'...

God Help us if we had to go the same route as Mauritius, as it is the most crooked racing ever, BUT NOT FROM THE JOCKS instead it is from the officials who take the money to keep the jocks from riding.....

Guys anytime a horse does not perform due to purposeful manipulation it's fixing.

Just 1 horse not trying increases the chances of the others and gives the parties who have knowledge of this an edge over the betting market.

Whether its 1 or 10 non- triers its all the same in my book.

That doesn't mean every time a jock makes an error it's on purpose but don't be naive as to think it doesn’t happen very frequently.

I can tell you a story many years ago a mate of mine had the field in the last leg of the Pick 6 and also owned the favourite in that leg. The jock was given instructions to pull the horse to make the Pick 6 pay, which it duly did and he won big loot.

Between connections trying to bring down a horses MR in order to make it more competitive, jockeys on the take giving dodgy rides, an often unreliable formbook and the pathetic prices offered by local bookies what chance does a punter have?

AB you ask why people invest so much time and money on something they think is crooked. That is not an easy question to answer but I would say for the main part it’s for the same reason why people spend money on anything they enjoy. Most owners and punters do it as a hobby and more for the enjoyment of finding a winner than for pure profit, myself included.

I also believe most punters don't understand odds, maths and statistics and how difficult it really is to maintain a long term edge over the bookies, and also how much you need to stake to make this edge really profitable. Never mind the discipline, inside info and element of luck that is required.

P6 & PA - True...not so good...or even better...paid up....fed the pool...someone else had the turn to win...

As for bookies paying jockeys, that does not concern me.
Bookies have to make a living too.
Given the stats...I last looked in 2006 at the gambling board....

Gauteng - 104 bookmakers

based and the tax sheets submitted after every race day to the gambling board...

2 bookmakers posted profit of > R1.5m for the year
7 bookmakers posted profit of > R1.0m for the year
95 bookmakers posted profit of < R500k for the year

the profits does not include bets on the side..
the profits exclude expenses such as rent, wages etc.

given that, and the current economic climate, I hope the bookmakers last till soccer 2010.

A Spur makes the same profit, with less risk.

As for our friendly jockeys, well I spend 3 months in Mauritius with them during 2006. Each racemeeting, George Wong and myself played the Mauritius P6, between 8000 and 12000 rupees each time.
The numbers were supplied by the South African Jockeys... > 7 of them.
Never caught the P6 with their numbers.
we got drunk most days, but never caught the P6 with their numbers...
great party animals...but tipsters....pass..

Good evening Andrewest

being a bookie is not an easy game, I thought it was a license to print money, then I bought a license and after 10 years still trying to repair the damage.

It was a Licence to print money during the early 80's.
I stood with Vivian de Villiers on the 1st day that his licence was granted.
On the silver ring...we won R40k the 1st day...thought it was Xmas...
Back then, even on the Vaal silver ring (we were 2 bookies), we held R150K - R200K a day. one could make a book, as betting percentages was good, punters on the track was many, and even if we did only 10% profit on turnover, it was great.

During 2005/2006 I stood on Turfontein and Newmarket.
Laid every bet asked, as long as it was cash, or a bookmaker.
Except for July day, the most I held was on Champions day R122k, won R22K.
Most other days the takings were between R4600 and R20,000 for the day.
Biggest cash bets - Itchy Finger R66k/ R2K and R20k/R2k a place.
Also many doubles and trebbles between R200K and R600K
expenses ran between R2000 and R2200 a meeting, wages, food, turfontein etc.
least I won was R162 for the day after expenses.

The funny part was...when I wanted to take back, derek and Neville would lay me R20K, the others....no bet..
However when they wanted bets...R200K/ R3k doubles and trebbles, I laid them.

It was a joke, sold the license and carried on punting.
Perhaps, if one operates the license from a room with a tab outlet, it can be viable. but then, giving credit...

Could perhaps have had a turnover of R100m a day, IF I gave R1M credit to each of my turfontein punters...but it would have lasted only 1 day?

Credit was the problem

winners were first in line, losers were post dated cheques or never to be found, and in many cases you bought back the bets.

time you paid the overheads, plus demand for the hotties and no market for the others, you could never make a book in the true sense.

Good luck to the turf consultants, with exchanges, not sure why they bother?