Co mingled pools

Serious question.... Not talking about today, but whenever we co mingled with the French on our Local racing we get told how massive the win /place pool is... 800k + etc..... My question is how does this really effect they payout for us? I have been following this for a while now and very seldom do you find more than 3 runners with better tote "odds" than the bookies are offering.... I have seen better "odds" on a more regular basis when there is no co mingling... does this really benefit anyone other than the operators increases takeout?

you have stumbled upon a question that most in the know have realized already. Bigger pools does not equate to better payouts - Yes you may get lucky from time to time, and get a bigger payout on some than the fixed odds, but can you really plan a strike on that.

The real issue here, rather than the absolute stake wagered on bets, which as you have correctly pointed out only serves to increase the takeout for the operator, is actually the very same takeout which is being removed. The percentages are incredibly high, and you will never land the big punters that identify certain strikes with these percentages, as on a normal day, any decent strike will get you significantly lower value than what you can get on a fixed odds bet.

Exotic bets are a pet peeve of mine, for the operator is well aware that they are getting the masses to play on the prospect of hitting the big one. The takeouts here often serve to remove any value that could be had, and you will generally always find yourself getting less than if you were somehow able to have taken said exotic on the fixed odds as a multiple. This is none more so pointed out when you have a day's set of races being run and won by short odds favourites, which do not allow for the mass culling of tickets to compensate for the large percentage takeout by the operator. When this happens, you find that you have to run a few legs in the PA first just to get on a level playing field (the point at which the nett pool is equal to the live tickets, after the takeout has been considered), and only then do you start building a favourable dividend, assuming that you haven't taken a large perm at that. The way this business model works is to have large competitive fields, cull many tickets, and boast about the large (not value) payouts, as people will then be satisfied thinking at least they could have won a large amount, rather than worry about the actual value of the payout vs what a fair value payout would be.

.....basically one is able to have a bigger tote bet without shortening the odds as drastically as one would do if there was no co-mingling....but take into account that big tote bettors in France or wherever we are commingling would be having their normal bigger punts on the good thing so no real value at the top of the boards....the value would then be in the middle market.....

Well said to all three of the previous commentators. Large pools provides less disruptive odds changes than small pools and if all money went into the tote would also provide a more accurate odds display as you get in Hong Kong for example. Weak pool liquidity kills off single race betting pools as only smaller punters get involved with the bigger guys preferring fixed odds. The tote can still offer value on exotics and if adding more creative games would be able to make the open bet a very unattractive option. The future of the tote (and horse racing as a whole) depends on the operator recognising which types of bets to add and offer for best results.

The large take out percentage is no better highlighted then in the Roulette ( Mystery/Colour Bet) - it is clear to see that the new wonder bet is not so wonderful with the average pool a mere R 195 at Durbanville yesterday. In a three horse race you simply can not be betting at over a 125% (Rounding makes this higher) - the takeout needs to be looked at to entice punters into finding some perceived value on the Tote.
The previous responses highlight the increased pools only provide an increased takeout and the large takeout percentage removes any value.

Zelig wrote: The large take out percentage is no better highlighted then in the Roulette ( Mystery/Colour Bet) - it is clear to see that the new wonder bet is not so wonderful with the average pool a mere R 195 at Durbanville yesterday. In a three horse race you simply can not be betting at over a 125% (Rounding makes this higher) - the takeout needs to be looked at to entice punters into finding some perceived value on the Tote.
The previous responses highlight the increased pools only provide an increased takeout and the large takeout percentage removes any value.

......this bet should be binned before it totally embarrasses those that dared to conceive it .....when they cross to the totes on these activation drives the masses seem totally flummoxed by this bet....and the semi educated punters avoid it like the plague.....it will never pull enough to warrant it clogging up the betting portals.....another joke like that other winner...... the time bomb....:blush: