what separates the professional handicapper

what are the key differences in your mind between someone punting for fun /drinking money and someone doing it to put food on the table?

in my mind:

bank roll management for one - a big one. think pros will only invest between 2 and 5% of there total bankroll (dedicated to punting) on any given bet thus allowing them to weather variance and absorb losses.

Discipline and emotional control, obviously is entirely different if approached as a job.

The fun factor, i'd assume someone doing it as a job has a lot less fun.

Would like input from some profitable punters.

Money management

Although I still claim to 'punt for fun' the reality is that I only started making modest long term profits when, after about 30 years of paying 'school fees', ( ie losing money!) I changed the following :

1.) I stopped almost all punting on SA racing and switched to the UK.

2.) I do 99% of all my big punting on sport and rugby in particular.

3.) I do all of my UK racing betting on Interbet and work off a 'bank' of R25k. Now that they offer UNINTERRUPTED live streaming I have little or no idea what is going on with SA racing as I am no longer forced to watch it.

4.) I seldom, if ever, use the tote as I need to know what I stand to win in order to balance my play and also see no possible benefit to me in having 20% + deducted from my stake up front. That does not mean to say I am not prepared to support racing but having R250 skimmed up front from a R1000 trifecta should make any half intelligent player seriously reconsider their punting business model.

5.) There is merit in the concept that you should never stand to lose more than you will win on any one event. Strangely the SA punter seems addicted to unwarranted odds on favourites. Or is that just the merit rating system at work?

6.) This one may surprise - I do not study form at all but I do skim through the Timeform comments before each race; which throw up an endless stream of longer priced options. The UK betting market and its movements is usually a true reflection of ability and likely outcome and I have become reasonably adept at reading it.

I apply the following general rules to my UK racing :

a.) I do not bet on any flat racing for distances below 1400m as I find sprints throw up the biggest percentage of 'results'. I also do not bet on National Hunt Flat races as lack of experience seems to beat quite a lot of strongly fancied runners.

b.) I exercise caution on Hurdle or Chase events beyond 3 miles.

c.) I seldom back a favourite outright but often back the longer priced horse/horses and save my stake on the favourite if I feel it is difficult to beat.

d.) If I uncover short priced favourites ( evens or shorter) which I believe cannot be beaten I will only back them in multiples and never 'on the nose'.

e.) Most of my sports betting is into a 'destination event'; eg from November 2014 until the conclusion of the tournament all my profits were rolled over into the Rugby World Cup. As a consequence I had 439 live bets on NZ ranging in value from R10 to a couple of thousand rands. Had another genuine contender emerged I would have 'stocked up' on that team as well. Amazingly the NZ price held constant until the semi finals.

My biggest challenge is applying what has become my betting mantra and which is printed on all of my betting sheets :

"Discipline and patience wins you the money".

There is no hurry. Nowadays we have 20+ races a day to play into. I only wish I could resist my occasional bad habit of chasing but I realise we all have the need to go to the edge occasionally to really get the adrenalin pumping. After all - the thrill is everything.

Garrick wrote: Although I still claim to 'punt for fun' the reality is that I only started making modest long term profits when, after about 30 years of paying 'school fees', ( ie losing money!) I changed the following :

1.) I stopped almost all punting on SA racing and switched to the UK.

2.) I do 99% of all my big punting on sport and rugby in particular.

3.) I do all of my UK racing betting on Interbet and work off a 'bank' of R25k. Now that they offer UNINTERRUPTED live streaming I have little or no idea what is going on with SA racing as I am no longer forced to watch it.

4.) I seldom, if ever, use the tote as I need to know what I stand to win in order to balance my play and also see no possible benefit to me in having 20% + deducted from my stake up front. That does not mean to say I am not prepared to support racing but having R250 skimmed up front from a R1000 trifecta should make any half intelligent player seriously reconsider their punting business model.

5.) There is merit in the concept that you should never stand to lose more than you will win on any one event. Strangely the SA punter seems addicted to unwarranted odds on favourites. Or is that just the merit rating system at work?

6.) This one may surprise - I do not study form at all but I do skim through the Timeform comments before each race; which throw up an endless stream of longer priced options. The UK betting market and its movements is usually a true reflection of ability and likely outcome and I have become reasonably adept at reading it.

I apply the following general rules to my UK racing :

a.) I do not bet on any flat racing for distances below 1400m as I find sprints throw up the biggest percentage of 'results'. I also do not bet on National Hunt Flat races as lack of experience seems to beat quite a lot of strongly fancied runners.

b.) I exercise caution on Hurdle or Chase events beyond 3 miles.

c.) I seldom back a favourite outright but often back the longer priced horse/horses and save my stake on the favourite if I feel it is difficult to beat.

d.) If I uncover short priced favourites ( evens or shorter) which I believe cannot be beaten I will only back them in multiples and never 'on the nose'.

e.) Most of my sports betting is into a 'destination event'; eg from November 2014 until the conclusion of the tournament all my profits were rolled over into the Rugby World Cup. As a consequence I had 439 live bets on NZ ranging in value from R10 to a couple of thousand rands. Had another genuine contender emerged I would have 'stocked up' on that team as well. Amazingly the NZ price held constant until the semi finals.

My biggest challenge is applying what has become my betting mantra and which is printed on all of my betting sheets :


[hr]
[]"Discipline and patience wins you the money".[/]


There is no hurry. Nowadays we have 20+ races a day to play into. I only wish I could resist my occasional bad habit of chasing but I realise we all have the need to go to the edge occasionally to really get the adrenalin pumping. After all - the thrill is everything.

some gems here. patience is everything in this game. i really like your mantra.

Never be in a hurry to lose your money !! Agree that patience is the key...

Try my best to avoid the horses and events (eg soccer) that have a draw that is highly probable so stick mainly to tennis, basketball, volleyball, darts, badminton, rugby, etc...and with basketball I seldom take a team O/R but bet mainly on total points...some teams are just very high scoring teams or get lots of free throws which means the clock stops thus resulting in more scoring attempts in a match...

Enjoy...

TNaicker wrote: Never be in a hurry to lose your money !! Agree that patience is the key...

Try my best to avoid the horses and events (eg soccer) that have a draw that is highly probable so stick mainly to tennis, basketball, volleyball, darts, badminton, rugby, etc...and with basketball I seldom take a team O/R but bet mainly on total points...some teams are just very high scoring teams or get lots of free throws which means the clock stops thus resulting in more scoring attempts in a match...

Enjoy...

I love basketball betting, and so want to see a NBA game live. Unfortunately Golden State Warriors winning streak of 24 games came to an end. You right, draw is a killer therefore the American sports are better except for Ice Hockey. I have found with tennis especially the lower rank players the temperament when they losing is that they hardly ever try to make a come back even if they versing their own level of ability player. In the ladies game the higher rank players do make a startling comeback when a set down, in play can be value.

My views on Garrick pretty accurate thread.....

1 very important thing he has left out is the challenge of getting on. It is nearly impossible to get any decent amount of cash on a horse and soccer is heading the same way.


1.) I stopped almost all punting on SA racing and switched to the UK.

for me its neither here nor there, racing is hard and getting on harder

2.) I do 99% of all my big punting on sport and rugby in particular.

Football for me, and not the leagues one would assume. France L2 is very good for e.g.

3.) I do all of my UK racing betting on Interbet and work off a 'bank' of R25k. Now that they offer UNINTERRUPTED live streaming I have little or no idea what is going on with SA racing as I am no longer forced to watch it.

4.) I seldom, if ever, use the tote as I need to know what I stand to win in order to balance my play and also see no possible benefit to me in having 20% + deducted from my stake up front. That does not mean to say I am not prepared to support racing but having R250 skimmed up front from a R1000 trifecta should make any half intelligent player seriously reconsider their punting business model.

I disagree, with the correct tote arrangement in place (rebate) playing the tote makes plenty sense and fact is the BIGGEST punting syndicates in the world ONLY bet the tote

5.) There is merit in the concept that you should never stand to lose more than you will win on any one event. Strangely the SA punter seems addicted to unwarranted odds on favourites. Or is that just the merit rating system at work?

for me it makes no difference, because i have a plan and i stick to it only every quarter do the numbers really matter.

6.) This one may surprise - I do not study form at all but I do skim through the Timeform comments before each race; which throw up an endless stream of longer priced options. The UK betting market and its movements is usually a true reflection of ability and likely outcome and I have become reasonably adept at reading it.

WOW , something we agree on BIG time. It would be nearly impossible for a punter to study form in this day and age. 1 SA card (4 hours) 3 UK Cards ( 12 Hours) 7 USA Cards (21Hours)
DAY OVER and not 1 bet placed. So we have to find patterns and follow the MATH/idiosyncrasies. I also have people in the office full time doing research for me on football / racing and tennis.

I apply the following general rules to my UK racing :

a.) I do not bet on any flat racing for distances below 1400m as I find sprints throw up the biggest percentage of 'results'. I also do not bet on National Hunt Flat races as lack of experience seems to beat quite a lot of strongly fancied runners.

No view

b.) I exercise caution on Hurdle or Chase events beyond 3 miles.

No View

c.) I seldom back a favourite outright but often back the longer priced horse/horses and save my stake on the favourite if I feel it is difficult to beat.

Not a bad strategy, i prefer looking at the place markets and now the enhanced place markets. Betfair now offer in a race with 3 places a 4th place market , PERFECT for some jockeys in CAPE racing and frankly taking a 18% return on a fav in a 14 horse field is VFM

d.) If I uncover short priced favourites ( evens or shorter) which I believe cannot be beaten I will only back them in multiples and never 'on the nose'.

Multiples are bookmakers bets, i try to steer clear. Not easy though as they often offer the ability for bets to be accepted.....so if i am struggling to get £500 on a 7/1 shot at the Vaal today, ill double it up with Novak to win round 1 match.....then lay Novak back if horse wins, costs me a few % but bet on....

e.) Most of my sports betting is into a 'destination event'; eg from November 2014 until the conclusion of the tournament all my profits were rolled over into the Rugby World Cup. As a consequence I had 439 live bets on NZ ranging in value from R10 to a couple of thousand rands. Had another genuine contender emerged I would have 'stocked up' on that team as well. Amazingly the NZ price held constant until the semi finals.

My biggest challenge is applying what has become my betting mantra and which is printed on all of my betting sheets :

"Discipline and patience wins you the money".

Self-discipline (especially patience) and knowledge (if you know more than the bookmakers' traders/exchange watchers, then you're likely to win money from them in the long run - at least you will until they close your account!).

Steckenpferd wrote: Self-discipline (especially patience) and knowledge (if you know more than the bookmakers' traders/exchange watchers, then you're likely to win money from them in the long run - at least you will until they close your account!).

Until ghey close your account......there in lays the rub !!! You cannot make a living from betting with the bookies plain and simple.

Magi wrote:

Steckenpferd wrote: Self-discipline (especially patience) and knowledge (if you know more than the bookmakers' traders/exchange watchers, then you're likely to win money from them in the long run - at least you will until they close your account!).

Until ghey close your account......there in lays the rub !!! You cannot make a living from betting with the bookies plain and simple.

the few profitable punters and i can't emphasize how few there really are based on what i hear - use a plethora of accounts with different bookies to avoid this.

Should not be neccessary.They must balance their books based on odds and bets, not decide which punters are unprofitable and then refuse to take the bet

I agree that it shouldn't be necessary and in the old days, when bookmakers really were bookmakers, it wouldn't have been.