I've been saying this

  • Bob Brogan
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I've been saying this

10 years 1 month ago
#551367
For years LSU

Great article www.sportingpost.co.za/2015/04/horseraci...ing-tied-up-in-nots/

When I first started gambling and working in the betting industry the shops were packed with punters in the UK .25 years later the shops are dead and it's the same faces with less and less new faces replacing the guys that have passed away or moved to other habits/hobbies.

Not sure if it's the product or just that there is more stuff to do with the leisure rand or pound these days ?
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  • oscar
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Re: I've been saying this

10 years 1 month ago
#551368
Bob the boys in the know tell me that horse racing is a complicated bet as opposed to sports or lucky numbers that's why they not going for it here

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  • louisg
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Re: I've been saying this

10 years 1 month ago
#551382
Very true Oscar. Not only complicated but also far too many different bets on offer.
In the article, Leon refers to , amongst others, creating more winners. For instance, the current pick six rules make it a very difficult bet to win. Whilst it creates bigger dividends, it creates less winners.
Merit rating also makes it more difficult. And the more difficult it becomes, the smaller the number of winners.

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  • Mac
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Re: I've been saying this

10 years 1 month ago
#551383
oscar wrote: Bob the boys in the know tell me that horse racing is a complicated bet as opposed to sports or lucky numbers that's why they not going for it here

Sjoe, trying taking friends to the races and explaining the different bets to their wives. And re-explaining and again and again. You end up missing your own bet :)

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  • Dave Scott
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Re: I've been saying this

10 years 1 month ago
#551392
Excellent article
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  • Muhtiman
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Re: I've been saying this

10 years 1 month ago
#551393
louisg wrote: Very true Oscar. Not only complicated but also far too many different bets on offer.
In the article, Leon refers to , amongst others, creating more winners. For instance, the current pick six rules make it a very difficult bet to win. Whilst it creates bigger dividends, it creates less winners.
Merit rating also makes it more difficult. And the more difficult it becomes, the smaller the number of winners.

.....nail on the head re-the P6.....yet those who made the changes regarding couplings will stick vehemently to this choice as the pools are often bolstered by continuos carry overs.....make it simple FFS ....even if they cant go back on the couplings issue.....make a provision for a one leg out if P6 is not won.....ie 5 leg winner gets a % of the pool and the other % goes to carry over pool...they had this in KZN before pools were co-mingled ..... and it gives a bigger chance of more winners to re-invest in further pools.....the punter base is not growing and pools are shrinking.....even Champions day with carry overs failed to pass ZAR5bar which has been easily acheived in the past....

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  • Mac
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Re: I've been saying this

10 years 1 month ago
#551397
Retunring to couplings and making consolation pick 6's, imo, just complicates the bet even further. Newcomers cant decide on the current race never mind subsequent races.

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  • mr hawaii
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Re: I've been saying this

10 years 1 month ago - 10 years 1 month ago
#551401
louisg wrote: Very true Oscar. Not only complicated but also far too many different bets on offer.
In the article, Leon refers to , amongst others, creating more winners. For instance, the current pick six rules make it a very difficult bet to win. Whilst it creates bigger dividends, it creates less winners.
Merit rating also makes it more difficult. And the more difficult it becomes, the smaller the number of winners.

I have a different view on this - Racing is not suffering because it is too complicated but rather because the culture of Horse Betting is no longer a household one in SA.
Their are multiple threads on ABC about youngsters inheriting the Racing bug from active parents or family members. That initial introduction, at a young age, has dwindled.
I was introduced from an early age, the first "what horse do you think will win the July" was probably when I was about 6. You learn the game slowly , just as you would learn to drive, fix a car or mow the lawn. Once you have the basics, and I mean basics- Picking a winner(that is really all Racing is about BUT how you pick that winner is where complications come in) you are then able to vary your bet types.
In the 70's and 80's it was not uncommon for my father to have to place a bet for my mother, granny, aunt, domestic worker and myself on big days. Racing was in your face every few days - Commentaries on the Radio, big races televised on SABC, results and dividends read out on news bulletins(tv and radio), all newspapers carrying racing etc. That exposure, for various reasons, has dwindled to almost nothing and with it so have the new players.
I have always enjoyed sport - I loved playing soccer and rugby but betting on sport was not something we did as a household as it was illegal and to this day I'm an occasional sports bettor. Also I grew up in a time where Casinos were not legal in SA and as such I never quite took to Casino betting - That is not to say that I have not tried but I could not quite get into either.
I think that exposing more people to Race betting is the only way to get new punters involved. I do not think you will get massive amounts of daily players involved but you will get a few and on big days you will get much higher turnover. I know a mate who I see at Racing only on big days - He only races when he joins his friend there who is a big owner and regular punter. On those days he spends I suppose 2-4k and treats it as a fun day and is prepared to lose that cash. The reason he goes Racing is because he has a friend involved. I think that that's the way to get in new blood.
If, in a perfect world, everytime you went racing you invited a new person to attend the game would grow. The complications of the game are far easily clarified by a trusted friend than a betting instruction booklet. Some will have only one bite and other might linger and become occasional punters but I think we have to be realistic and realize that our vice has a refined flavour which is only palatable to certain individuals who either were born into the game or have minds that crave that type of stimulation.
I understand the notion that big pools should attract more players but using myself as an example I do not think this is true. The lotto offers a life changing dividend every week(twice a week I think) yet I no longer see the long lines of players that initially flocked to take those odds. I started out playing, as I suppose many others did, but soon got bored by the draws and the allure of "dream money" soon dwindled when I saw very little return. A further nail was knocked into the coffin when Charities were up in arms for not getting their cut. Many people I know also stopped playing for this reason as they used the "I don't care if I win or lose as its my way of giving to charity rather than give to every beggar I see" excuse to stand in line.
What I have noticed is that the "dream bet" in SA is now the Soccer Multiple. I know many soccer punters who spend R10 - R200 on self created dream bets. They show me their tickets, most of which involve 6-15 matches, with amazing payouts for small money. As a punter I know this will lead to the poor house eventually as bookies thrive on multiples. I have explained to them that taking only two teams might be better but am laughed off as they want to "buy the dream" not become winning punters. Bookies do their bit by showing actual proof of R10 bets that win perhaps 100k or more and the dream catches on just like Miracle 2000 or any other get rich quick scheme. The actual thrill of watching the event is not present in most cases as many of the matches are not even televised in SA and many take place at odd hours. There is no Adrenalin rush here like we have in Racing but purely an emotional wager based on the hope of perceived financial freedom. And it grows daily as the word spreads amongst those that want a life changing win.
Can Racing compete with this? I personally do not think so as Soccer is a household sport and the transition to wagering is simple as the rules of the game are known to most boys well before they turn 10. Racing no longer has that base to fall back on - I do believe that a substantial group of prospective players, who were born into "July Day Fever" have emigrated. Further to that the huge marketing spend by retailers like OK and Game are long gone and that constant legitimization and in your face marketing of Racing went a long way to keep interest in the game going. Racing needs that back - If only one big supermarket chain could be involved in sponsoring a race with in-store promotions turnover would increase dramatically for that race and perhaps a familiar old spark would light up in the population.

Verbal diarrhea this morning I think so time to take an Immodium and get my bets ready for the Vaal.
Last edit: 10 years 1 month ago by mr hawaii.
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  • Bob Brogan
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Re: I've been saying this

10 years 1 month ago
#551408
Brilliant post Mr H...

Gambling used to be a past time / hobby that was easier to get involved with than most.Now with transport and technology there are far more options availble and the young and the working man can go do other things after work and at the weekend..

I just think times have changed

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  • mikesack
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Re: I've been saying this

10 years 1 month ago
#551417
There's a dogs chance of any supermarket or chain store sponsoring racing here in S.A. The operators don't seem to be stressing about the lack of local participation.
The sale of pictures to other countries surpasses any concerns for dwindling punters and pools.The inclusion of sports betting pools are more lucrative and profitable to the operators.
Now there has been a declared intent to venture into the Casino market by the Racing Operator.

With an oversupply of horses and the continual implementing of the MR system, the emphasis seems to focus on how much a horse fetches at a sale rather than how many races could be won with champions.

It is a given fact that the horses we remember with fond memories like Sea Cottage, Colorado King, Hawaii,
Politician.Elevation,In Full Flight ,Sentinel etc, didn't cost a fortune yet they had the power to pull in the masses and continue to have racegoers talk about their achievements long after their demise.

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  • mr hawaii
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Re: I've been saying this

10 years 1 month ago
#551429
mikesack wrote: There's a dogs chance of any supermarket or chain store sponsoring racing here in S.A. The operators don't seem to be stressing about the lack of local participation.
The sale of pictures to other countries surpasses any concerns for dwindling punters and pools.The inclusion of sports betting pools are more lucrative and profitable to the operators.
Now there has been a declared intent to venture into the Casino market by the Racing Operator.

With an oversupply of horses and the continual implementing of the MR system, the emphasis seems to focus on how much a horse fetches at a sale rather than how many races could be won with champions.

It is a given fact that the horses we remember with fond memories like Sea Cottage, Colorado King, Hawaii,
Politician.Elevation,In Full Flight ,Sentinel etc, didn't cost a fortune yet they had the power to pull in the masses and continue to have racegoers talk about their achievements long after their demise.

Mike I hear what you are saying but the media and restrictive gambling legislation coupled with a Commonwealth History of Horse Racing made those equine heroes. Remember in the 70's and 80's we had very few TV and Radio stations and very little legal gambling so the choice was limited in the extreme. If you watched sport on a Saturday you basically had to watch whatever was being shown. I remember watching Show Jumping and still remember Gonda Beatrix, Analie Haperfenich etc and local motor racing, tennis. Even the occasional Netball game etc but when Mnet appeared you now had a choice of which sports you actually wanted to watch and were no longer under the control of sponsors and TV execs. I no longer watch any of the above mentioned sports BUT i still remember the names and some rules. I can't remember when last I watched a tennis match but I do remember Johan Krick, McEnroe, Borg etc because Wimbledon was always a huge deal on SABC just like the July and Met were. Freedom comes with a price and freedom of choice ultimately dictates what the market wants to watch and thereby where the sponsors want to spend their rands.

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  • Mac
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Re: I've been saying this

10 years 1 month ago
#551436
I remember going to the Tatts Loveday St to back Spanish Pool on the Friday before the "July" and ended up watching McEnroe throwing his tantrum. :-)

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