Response from Phumelela

Bob Brogan wrote: What everyone must remember every single penny Phumelela or the bookies put into racing comes from us... The punter... Every single rand

So right Bob, which is why the golden staircase needs many more punters.

There is no long term substitute for physical customer growth and retention and the operator and racing will be best served by making this a priority.

Titch wrote:

Chris van Buuren wrote: So taxes doesn't come out of the bookmakers pockets, sure we know that but with the verocity that the statement is made it seems to think that the taxes paid by P does come from their pockets?????

25% takeout vs. 6% tax.......

Whatever dude.

hard to make that comparison Chris... would you rather they take 6% tax and claim all carry over pools???

My statement was not a comparison but rather a statement with regards to P eluding to the fact that bookmakers don't pay taxes out of their pockets but obviously P "does". If bookmakers took out 25% there would be no bookmakers. .....

Very easy way 2settle this let p pay 6% tax same as bookies or let the bookies pay 25% of turnover same as p and let everybody conribute evenly 2 broadcast racing

Rockspider wrote: Very easy way 2settle this let p pay 6% tax same as bookies or let the bookies pay 25% of turnover same as p and let everybody conribute evenly 2 broadcast racing

How much do you think of the 25% takeout goes back in the pot ?10%?

Bob Brogan wrote: What everyone must remember every single penny Phumelela or the bookies put into racing comes from us... The punter... Every single rand

But not forgetting the owner is equally important. They are the ones who pay the breeders. They are the ones who pay the jockeys. They are the ones who pay the vets and farriers. They are the ones who pay the trainers who pay the grooms...

Mac that is without doubt... But we are talking about the operator and the bookie

A few decades ago when the betting tax was reduced from 10% to 6% the commensurate takeout from the tote was not reduced accordingly.

And, agreed, the punter is the sole source of funds contributed from the bookies and the tote.

Over the Air wrote: Titch what part of they put in nothing and take 25% out dont you get?

The "they put in nothing" part please explain :oops: :blink:

Mac has explained Titch - the punter pays for everything. Everything. Phumelela pay for what they do with our money not theirs.

Now let me tell you a story. The bookies where I punt and the guys in Meyersdal had a meeting with the tote a few years back. They were both tote agents. They received 4% of turnover. That is all. For this they had to supply staff, pay for tote stationery, training etc etc. The margin paid made it uneconomical. A meeting was called with Phumelela and in the meeting a very senior man lets leave his name out of it, said that his hands were tied there could be no adjustments in the margins paid. Both bookmakers subsequently went and installed their own software and now offer the open bet. I was speaking to one of the partners over a beer a few weeks ago and he tells me his profits on tote betting have increased tenfold. Tenfold. What were the bookies asking for? They asked for 8%. Now Phumelela looses out on over 5 million turnover a month. Who do you think the loser is Titch? Phumelela are reaping what they have sown.

Chris van Buuren wrote: So taxes doesn't come out of the bookmakers pockets, sure we know that but with the verocity that the statement is made it seems to think that the taxes paid by P does come from their pockets?????

25% takeout vs. 6% tax.......

Whatever dude.

Not quite correct. You need to add in the bookie's margin to the 6% tax.

Has been many years since I was a cream cookie but do remember paying vat over on my winnings,
not sure where that comes into the equation?

Over the Air wrote: Now let me tell you a story. The bookies where I punt and the guys in Meyersdal had a meeting with the tote a few years back. They were both tote agents. They received 4% of turnover. That is all. For this they had to supply staff, pay for tote stationery, training etc etc. The margin paid made it uneconomical.

That meeting must have taken place a good few years ago...the current commission structure is 5% horses and 10% sport and all tote operators are trained and supplied to the outlets by Phum, the outlet owners pay their salary