kieth steinberg and others including myself

hibernia and Harris, you can hide the post, I am happy for you to do it. it might be better for all and sundry and in the interest of racing. that is what the NHRA told me. I chose not to pursue it. For the record I did not say Basil was a thief, I merely said that he had lied to me and had dissapointed me. I tried to greet Basil and sent him so many congratulatory texts when he won with J Peg with not even a thank you.

You must accept that everyone on this site said I should have the courage to come out and not remain anonymous so I did so. Just remember that for defamation to stand, It is usually a requirement that the claims need to be false. Do you quite honestly think I would make myself so vulnerable if I was not telling the truth. I have no agenda and nothing to gain by this save for the improving the ethics in racing for the benefit of all of us.

Basil is certainly well respected and leave it at that. Lets move on and bring this whole thread to an end in the interest of racing.
But that does not mean we should desist from improving our image in racing by hiding the things that go on between some owners and some trainers and between some trainers and some breeders. Maybe I was wrong to name him but many other forumites have named other trainers and jockeys and other stalwarts in racing and have made numerous derogatory statements before. The truth hurts but it certainly stops people making the same mistakes going forward. We sometimes need that. if you think people like me should keep our feellings to ourselves then rather let me sell up my 40 horses and rather go elsewhere into something else that is seen as being more appropriate.

Racing is seen by outsiders as not being above board. We in racing know that racing is not above board. So what is the solution?
Do we lose people like me because I dont have freedom of speech for the truth. Would racing prefer it that we leave things as is and e just die with our boots on. Well maybe I might invest my money elsewhere where at least I might have a say and be able to make a difference. I have helped so many people in the racing industry, including those who are not as fortunate as I am financially and also those who have been previously disadvantaged. I am sure Basil can do much more and contribute much more than I can to SA Racing
so best he is given the benefit of the doubt and may God bless you all.

my question is if you took this matter up with the NHRA what gives them the right to unilaterally decide without a legal decision being made that it is in the best intrests in racing to hide these allegations- i am not saying you are correct but i would hope that the NHRA would rather investigate an issue of this magnitude and then make a just and fair ruling after seeing all the evidence presented by both parties. I would hope that both yourself and Mr Marcus would welcome this as that IS in the best intrest of racing- It is cases like this that make people leave racing as they beleive that the people tasked with protecting them are not(rightly or wrongly it is a perception that is there)

umlilo Wrote:

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> This is one of the most disgusting, unpalatable
> racist & bigotted diatribe ever posted on this
> site (or any other); YOU ACCEPT THAT?

I'm not religious and generally speaking I would prefer not to listen to peoples personal superstitions or whatever, but I don't accept that it's racist for two people of a similar persuasion to have a differing of opinion about how they should conduct themselves (in this case) as Jews. Neither would it be racist for one Christian to point out to another that he was being "un-christian" like. Although it's a credit to Jews that they think of themselves a Jews first and businessmen second. Mostly it's the other way around.

Mr Hawaii's point about the NHA is also interesting. It's about time that people who have colours realize that the authoritarian gigantanaut that was the Jockey Club of old is deceased. It is an ex parrot...it is no more. We all have lawyers and there's hardly anyone that accepts that the NHA has the last word on anything other than day-to-day rules governing licensed persons. If something is contentious, a close call may find the NHA in court as a co-respondent. It would mean NHA board would have to sit and make a binding decision every time they may meddle beyond the rules. Good luck with that.

Please will someone ban the phrase IN THE INTEREST OF RACING! WTF is that, is it a god given path to an enlightened person or committee? If ever a comment carries baggage, that's the one. Rather just say 'THEY can't handle the truth', where WE are THEY and be done with it. It's always about how to manage bad publicity and I look forward to the day when lying by omission ever pays off.

Last point about free speech vs censorship vs personal liability. Harris suggested ABC remove Phantom's post. I disagree. You can't un-ring the bell. The more the administrator edits post, the more he/they accepts responsibility for what appears. If we are satisfied that the writers are who they say they are, then they will have to accept what comes their way as if it were a letter to a newspaper. Most of the time the truth will set you free as long as you have proof.

I don't think ABC should be help up to a higher standard than any other media. Given that Basil's brother replied in his 'blood is thicker than water' post shows both sides know whats what and I for one believe they are who that say they are.

@jack dash:

Amen to your points.

As many forumites have repeatedly noted; leave religion out (there is definitely no justification for the sort of statement made by S Marcus which harks of a superiority and / or privilege, like an exclusive club). Herein, I find atheists far more consistent, human and tolerant of other points of view than most religionists.

Within my own family circle, we have Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews, etc; if ever religious discussion is brought up, it is never with justifying one against the other, rather the nobler practical aspects are mooted and respected by exchanging greetings on one another's religious days.

What KS exposed/stated is the norm within the industry, as Pirates, Observer and others pointed out. The industry is froth with a cancerous canker; my own experiences with the NHRA endorsed that and remains unchallenged.

That a handful control, manipulate and direct the industry at the expense of the majority of voiceless (and not so rich) stakeholders should be the concern to correct pronto...... surely?

pirates Wrote:

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> the situation explained above is rife in the
> racing industry where trainers bloodstock agents
> and breeders get together and rip owners off..it
> is done by plenty high profile people some of them
> who are on boards that run this industry//i take
> my hat to ks for being prepared to write what he
> did because it needs to be exposed and those
> people who do it be punished and thrown out the
> industry...many owners upon finding out about
> being taken for a ride have left the industry but
> the scum who did it remain..


Did anybody listen to the post race interview saterday...Turfontein Race 5 winner African Icon...the owner made some serious allegations about trainer Mawing...as an owner and someone who considering investing more into the game this is very concerning...how rife is this...

Can you elaborate FC.

Kieth what I admire about you is the passion & love you have for your horses. Very few owners can say that they take care of their horses after they have retired. In my view you are mensch.

Harris Wrote:

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> Can you elaborate FC.

I only watched the replays last night but when asked by Julie how he acquired the horse the said something about paying trainer Mawing R75,000 for the horse but it was not forthcoming...he then had to go to the breeders in CT who informed him that the horse was not paid for...the owner used some harsher words...maybe Hibs can attch the clip...

He used the word "crooked".

My 5 cents worth...why was this issue ever raised on ABC....the KS/BM issue was done and dusted.To have raised it in public wasn't necessary......

Keith phoned me today and asked me to remove both threads .I initially agreed with him, but after further thoughts and £15 worth of Costa coffee I feel its too late.what do the rest of the clan think?

Ps Keith you can edit your own posts

far too late for damage control now