Weight in handicaps:S

or maybe Bulsara is better over further
or maybe the handicapper has Captain scott and Galnthas too high in the ratings oh AND DONT FORGET RUDRA no decent drop for this one even though it hasn't run to its rating for ages !

@ Rob what is the pound to lengths ratio over 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 miles ?

Thanks for putting me straight Rob. I did however say that the weights and distances I used was for illustration purposes alone!

I did make a hash of the distances I know

Just to point out that 'out at the weights' and 'held at the weights' are not the same.

'Out at the weights' normally refers to plated races (pinnacle, condtition, novice, graduation and even maidens) where horses are not weighted according to their respective MR's, so some will be 'out at the weights'. Also in handicaps, sometimes the bottom weights are carrying more weight than they should, because the minimum weight is set to 52kg's.

'Held at the weights' is a term used to indicate that a horse is now worse off at the weights due to his MR being raised (usually as a result of a win in a previous race) as illustrated by the Piere Jourdan example.

Thanks Frod thought i was going crazy

Frodo Wrote:

---

> Just to point out that 'out at the weights' and
> 'held at the weights' are not the same.
>
> 'Out at the weights' normally refers to plated
> races (pinnacle, condtition, novice, graduation
> and even maidens) where horses are not weighted
> according to their respective MR's, so some will
> be 'out at the weights'. Also in handicaps,
> sometimes the bottom weights are carrying more
> weight than they should, because the minimum
> weight is set to 52kg's.
>
> 'Held at the weights' is a term used to indicate
> that a horse is now worse off at the weights due
> to his MR being raised (usually as a result of a
> win in a previous race) as illustrated by the
> Piere Jourdan example.

Thanks for clarifying that Frodo, PJ's MR wasn't raised though he still raced with 112 like in the previous race but i understand that in the handicaps it became too high. however looking at another example, take IGUGU for instance her MR was raised by ten points from 88 to 98, could it be that she lost because she was 'held at the weights' even though she was not 'out at the weights'?..

keniza999,

In theory, PJ was 'held at the weights' by Galanthus and Captain Scott, because on their runs in the Spring Challenge (which was not a handicap), at the weights they carried in the Charity Mile (which was a handicap) both of them should IN THEORY have run in front of PJ.

Igugu is another matter; the Ready to Run Cup was NOT a handicap and in theory, she was the 2nd best weighted (Checcetti being the best weighted) in the race off a rating of 98. The fact that a horse rated 9 points below her beat her at level weights, means that (on this run) either Igugu is rated too high, or Hollywoodboulevard is rated too low, or a combination of both; this shows up the problems handicappers face, and they will take into account the ratings of other close-up finishers in the race (Al's Mark - who did not have an 'official' MR prior to the race - and Oh Driscoll) in determining possible new ratings for both Igugu and Hollywoodboulevard. The tendency is to increase ratings rather than decrease, so it is likely that Hollywoodboulevard's rating will go up - by how much is anyone's guess.

Hopes thie helps:)

Thanks Frodo that helps...now why would trainers like that of PJ for an example enter a horse in race where it would be 'out at the weights', i then suppose the reason why Pocket Power won so many races is because he was always running in races where he had a weight advantage (in at the weights)

keniza999 Wrote:

---

> Thanks Frodo that helps...now why would trainers
> like that of PJ for an example enter a horse in
> race where it would be 'out at the weights', i
> then suppose the reason why Pocket Power won so
> many races is because he was always running in
> races where he had a weight advantage (in at the
> weights)


Some (most?) of the more prestiguous races are NOT handicaps, so if you want the glory you need to run; also some use the races as 'preps' or there may simply not be any other 'suitable' races to run in. In general, horses with 'high' ratings need to run in plated races; while horses with 'lower' ratings generally target handicaps

PP had a 'weight advantage' on handicap terms only; he won those races at level weights so he was the best horse

...and in the handicaps he gave weight away.

I still maintain that the whole system is ridiculous. Level weights for all! -D